From Lukasz.Fenrych:
Since it’s Conor Benn fight week: who are the most disappointing nepo-baby/family legacy boxers, and which ones were surprisingly successful?
I think boxing is a particularly hard job to take up even if you have the bloodlines and the advantages that can come from that. It’s not just the thing where, if you’re going to be actually good, you have to live and train like a professional athlete. And it’s not just that being a pro athlete is damn hard, even in a sport where the pro ranks are made up largely of people who aren’t really pro athletes. And it’s not just the physical end. The mental side of it all, being willing and even enthusiastic about taking punishment, is the biggest deal. It’s why whenever people go, “Well, if Allen Iverson or LeBron had become a boxer, they’d have been great.” Maybe. Maybe it would have turned out they really hate being punched. Most human beings do.
Boxing is also a sport where most of them people who become stars and make good money started from a place where they’re going to want their children to do something else with their lives. Most successful fighters have openly discouraged their kids from taking up something so dangerous and demanding for a living, perhaps in part because the kids of successful boxers aren’t coming from the same background that so many great boxers have, where boxing was a “way out.”
Maybe the two actual best second generation boxers are guys who are second generation, but their fathers were not bringing in some big money from their fighting careers, in Floyd Mayweather Jr and Tyson Fury. Floyd Sr and John Fury weren’t truly notable professionals or particularly successful. The “nepo” line has to come from a case like Benn or Chris Eubank Jr, even Tim and Nikita Tszyu are a different sort of case.
When you really look at the history of this, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr — someone who is seen as pretty disappointing, particularly compared to his father — would actually rank fairly well compared to most. I mean, he was more successful than Archie Moore Jr or Bobby Foster or Max Schmeling Jr. More successful than Shane Mosley Jr, who is someone I really like and has shown a lot more grit than I would have expected, and doesn’t carry near the negative press Julio Jr does.
Cory Spinks did well for himself. Emiliano Vargas looks like he may be the real deal. The worst for me has gotta be Hasim Rahman Jr.
From Degys:
Your favourite commentator duo/team and why?
For all-timers, it’s hard for me to go against Lampley and Merchant, plus whomever was their third. They were just the voice of so many of the important fights I grew up on, and that I remember so vividly. The Showtime teams of that era would also be in there. None of them were perfect or whatever, I argued with the TV then as I do now, but it was different. They cared more. They were willing to be more honest. Sports TV was a different game then than it is now. Everything we’ve heard for years now is so PR-filtered, because boxing’s broadcast status has become so degraded. Everyone is calling fights for the house now. Nobody wants to offend the promoter or whatever broadcaster.
On the Showtime side, I think Steve Albert was a terrific blow-by-blow guy, right there with Lampley. They had different styles, but they were both world class sports commentators who happened to call boxing. And I miss Al Bernstein calling fights more than I miss anyone, maybe.
But if I’m picking a pure favorite, it might be the ShoBox duo of Barry Topmkins and Steve Farhood in the 2010s. They were just good. They were always good. They never had an off-night because they were allowed to call fights as they always had, with ShoBox not being all that high profile.
As for the modern teams, I like Corey Erdman and Morgan Campbell calling fights, those guys and the ProBox crew come the closest to what I used to enjoy. They still fluff up any fight put in front of them and pretend they don’t understand that every 12-0 record is not created equal, but Malignaggi is by miles the best genuine live fight analyst of the last couple decades. Some of it is the same as the Tompkins/Farhood duo: It’s guys calling fights without seeming like they’re reading off pre-approved thoughts.
From daboxingisback:
Assuming you had full control how would you bring Andy Ruiz back to prominence or at least make the most of whatever is left of him?
I honestly don’t know if there’s anything anyone can do. He wasted so many years. And while weight gains and cuts are different for a heavyweight than, say, the toll it took on Ricky Hatton during his career, it’s still hard to keep being a pro athlete when you gain a lot of weight, lose a lot of weight, gain it again, lose it again — he’s never been trim, but I really think it has just fully caught up to Ruiz over time. Combine that with the lack of discipline, the lack of focus, the inactivity, all of it. He rode a fine line to be a true contender in the first place, he couldn’t afford missteps. It’s been years of missteps, and now he’s so far off the path that I don’t think he can get back to it.
Damian Knyba is not a special fighter. He’s not a super serious contender, he’s a fringe guy at best. He fought a good fight, I don’t mean to take that away from Knyba, and if he gets a big fight out of beating a name brand guy, then he earned that within how boxing really works.
But Andy losing to that guy happened because he just does not have what he used to have. I truly wish him the best of luck if he does keep fighting, but I have the feeling that no matter what happens from here, he’s going to deeply regret these years between beating Joshua and, well, everything after that. He might not have ever equaled that night again, might have always lost a rematch to AJ even if he’d shown up in shape, but the years since then have torched whatever legacy he was leaving, because he’s never looked good in a fight. It’s been four comebacks in five years and he’s looked worse every time out. That’s a hard trend to reverse at 37.
From scooby120:
Have you heard any news or updates on Vergil Ortiz? Who do you think he will fight next and what do you think his ring performance will be like?
Last I’d heard was probably the same as a lot of you, the issues with Golden Boy were settled, everyone was going to move forward, a fight would be announced in time. I still assume he’ll probably get in before the end of 2026, but I wouldn’t expect much from what will now be a rust-shaking return. No reason I know of that he can’t come back in good form, and we can keep hoping to see Boots vs Vergil in 2027.
From VeryMadMax:
Since it has come up lately, how do you think Timothy Bradley would have fared against 2010s PBC welterweights (Porter, Thurman, Danny Garcia, Spence)
I think a prime Spence would have always been bad news for him, but Tim would have held his own with the other guys at the very least. Tim was a tough, tough dude. Fought mean, fought hard, wasn’t afraid to get into a brawl, but also had some skills, was a smart fighter unless he was forced into a proper firefight, and then he’d just wing it.
If we’re thinking about them all being in their best shape at 147, I think he’d have beaten Danny, Porter’s 50/50 (and I think I would have loved that fight), lost close to Keith, and lost wide to Errol.
From Splicey:
Are there any mythical matchups where you would favour the clearly ‘lesser’ fighter due to stylistic reasons (rather than weight)?
To call back to my personal favorite “styles make fights” guy of the modern era, I think Vernon Forrest could have been a welterweight nightmare for Floyd Mayweather. It’s not about the weight, Floyd earned his stripes at 147, I consider him as legit a welter as I do a lightweight or whatever, even if 130/135 was probably him at his absolute best. It’s about the style. Vernon was big, strong, a good boxer, very sharp guy. I think Floyd would have had a really bad time with him, though he was good enough to have had success. But I think Vernon takes it 116-112, which even in the fantasy boxing of my brain returns a split decision for him on scores of 116-112, 115-113, and 113-115.
From Max Wills 2nd:
After knocking out Dillian Whyte in 2022, Tyson Fury wasn’t just the best heavyweight on the planet but arguably the most compelling fighter of his era. He was respected, indeed adored, due to his remarkable comeback and mental health advocacy, one of those rare figures who transcended the sport.
Six years later and he seems to be disliked by almost everyone. Pundits, fans, online commentators are sick of his antics. The funny thing is, he hasn’t failed a drugs test (well, since the comeback), frequented hookers, got in trouble with the law. He’s just exposed himself as a prick.
Can you think of an equivalent Hero To Zero trajectory in boxing / sport? One entirely caused by personality, not wrongdoing — so discount the likes of Lance, Tiger, McGregor. The closest I can come is Phil Mickelson but I’m sure I’ve missed some obvious ones.
Yeah, it’s unusual, and it kind of makes you think about the Fury thing. Tyson’s always just been Tyson. He is who he is, and also, who he is is four or seven different people depending on the day and what he feels like saying. There are much worse villains in sports and indeed boxing than Tyson Fury, but Tyson has a little cult of personality deal, and he loves to talk. So everything he says gets attention. And some of what he says is designed to get negative reactions. This leads to people getting sick of hearing from you, especially if you’re as obnoxious as Fury can often be.
Now purely from a boxing standpoint with his personality, I think his response to the Usyk losses was what pushed a lot of people past their line. People tend to dislike bad losers, especially when being one gets any real focus. I mean, Serena Williams was always a bad loser, but she has better PR than Tyson and also tends to not go on about it forever, publicly, at least that I can recall. The Joshua saga has done him no favors, either; actually, that’s done nobody involved any favors.
Apart from anything really shocking coming from him, though, this will come back around the other side. In 10, 15 years, people will talk about him and how there’s nobody like him anymore.
From HolmesAlone:
Why do you think the very long cards with twice as much filler than boxing exist in their current form? Is it attracting broader audiences? At the height of boxing’s popularity there was no fluff, just straight to fights.
Sports TV (or “TV” in this specific case) has changed. Everything comes with more filler, more hype, more time for ads, more orchestrated melodrama. I don’t know the numbers, I admit, because this doesn’t come up so much with everything on streaming now and, well, me not trusting any streamer’s internal numbers even if they report them, but no, I can’t imagine there’s much really good evidence that this attracts bigger or wider audiences. But it works on some level, or they wouldn’t keep digging in to make it worse all the time. Maybe it’s something to do with social media, which has ruined most things so why not this?
From Tyler Neves:
What do you think of the new ProBox subscription model? I like the cards they have been putting together and their approach to matching fighters, but it seems like a tough concept to pull off. Do you get any indication from site traffic as to how interest in their cards might be performing?
I sincerely hope it works out. I’m a subscriber, I’m happy to be one, I’m happy to pay $5 and I think that’s a steal for any diehard boxing fan. What I fear, and I’ve said this before, is there are not enough people who will pay $5 for these level fights to keep this going.
I think the ProBox folks have delivered on their promises more than anyone in boxing in recent years. They give you what they say they will give you. It’s not a 100 percent hit rate, of course, but it’s a stronger hit rate than anyone else. And even when they miss, I get the sense they were sincerely trying to live up to their word, it just didn’t happen, and with real, competitive sports, that’s inevitable. They promised competitive matchmaking and entertaining fights, and for all it matters, they’ve given us that.
But if $5 doesn’t work, then what? See if those who paid $5 will pay $10? Some will. Not all, though. What percentage of them would you have to retain at the new price? Even if it’s cheap, it’s double what you were charging. But if it were to go belly-up, for once it would not be the promoter’s fault. They’ve lived up to their word. They have given it their best effort. It would just be a hard, sad reality of the marketplace.
Again, I hope it works. I’m rooting for them.
From Victhegoat2022:
In your opinion, what’s more important in boxing: legacy or financial security? And would you consider Edgar Berlanga’s career a success? He’s never won a world title, but might have the case as being the most overpaid fighter at least of this 21st-century. Is having the money a way of counting career successful or winning the titles?
It’s absolutely successful. You know, it’s hard to put this into the right words, because I’m sure Edgar Berlanga wants to win a world title, but not everyone has that same drive or ambition. I think it’s clear that Berlanga’s first priority is making money. And that goes for a lot of fighters. And it is entirely understandable. Mayweather’s approach and persona changed the game, but Mayweather’s a hard comparison because he was already truly great by the time he sort of morphed his whole deal to “Money Mayweather.”
The most realistic answer I can give you, from my point of view, is the financial security is the most important thing. But I’m not built like these men and women. My brain will never work like theirs. We’re not the same. And I have a great admiration for the fighters who truly do care about the legacy, about the mark they make on the sport. The best of them find the balance, understanding the money will eventually come with the greatness if you prove the greatness is real. Tough path, though. You gotta really be built different to make that a reality.
From KingSolo123:
Who would you consider the best amateur to never go pro? Teofilo Stevenson seems to be a name I come across alot. Apparently they wanted to pay him alot to fight Muhammad Ali, but he chose to stand by Cuba instead an refused to go pro. Are there any other names that stand out? Any Americans? Or maybe old Soviet boxers?
I don’t know about the best, surely some of you better-versed in amateur boxing could answer that better than me, so by all means get that cooking down in the comments. I’d be intrigued to hear your picks, too. But Teofilo, even if maybe someone has a good pick for a better fighter that didn’t go pro, is probably historically the most intriguing to think about.
From majordanby:
What do you think boxing would look like now if Turki and the Saudis never entered the sport?
The biggest thing has been the bolstering of DAZN, I think. I suspect that otherwise, most of the in-ring would have still happened. I think Beterbiev-Bivol would have finally happened, they just both would have made less money, though still quite a lot, more than for other fights. I don’t know what I think for sure wouldn’t happen. The Ngannou fights?
But that gigantic injection of cash has propped up the sport at a time it did need it, because the broadcast options had become limited.
From HiImChris:
What are the economics of a boxers purse from gross to net? How much do boxers get for the patches on their shorts, how do they source sponsorships because it seems like such random companies for mid to low level fighters. Just generally can you provide detail on the business of boxing from a fighter’s perspective.
Let’s throw this one to our own John Hansen, who once tried to dig into this subject:
Best I can tell you is the details are opaque, nobody really wants to provide documentation, some people don’t even really know until years later what they’ve actually made, there’s little to no standardization, etc. There are also differences between holding deals (what guys get guaranteed per year or per fight if they get to a certain level) and the fight purses themselves.
For patches/branded elements on their kitting? It was easier finding out what poker players get for TV appearances because some of the randos that just get seated at a televised table have spoken openly about what they’ve been paid to slap a velcro logo on their shirt or hat. And I think a lot of the fighter sponsorships are like auto racers, where they’re more dependent on relationships (like Jose Ramirez with Wonderful Pistachios) than what we might think of as marketability or “value.” And, the more obscure or regional, the more likely it is the fighter sold that directly and actually pocketed most of the money instead of paying a commission to someone that made the deal for them.
Anything you see on someone’s trunks, even for televised prelims or workmanlike B-side guys there to pad records, is worth a few hundred to a low four-figure amount. Anything above that is “negotiable,” and nobody past that entry level seems to want to talk much about it outside of their organization.
From APGbe:
Why don’t you like being called Scotty?
I just never have been and now I’m a middle aged man. Seems a bad time to take that up. If I’d been called that as a kid, maybe I’d think differently, but it never happened in any way that stuck or whatever.
